Here's a quick 30 second look at Christianity which is not meant to be an attack, just honest questioning:
Jesus Christ was God in human form.
(Some Christians also firmly believe that the Holy Spirit is part of a "trinity," all of which are God in three persons: God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.)
The main point of Christianity is to believe that Jesus (who is God) came to earth to save us from sins that we committed against God.
Most logical and rational people should be able to look at this story and see a HUGE flaw.
Why would God send himself in human form as Jesus in order to "save us from our sins" which were against God (himself)?
How does this make any sense?
Why would God need to apologize to himself for our sins against him?
Any thoughts? Let's talk this one out!
Leave a comment.
6 comments:
To keep it simple, Christians believe that Satan is an angel who wanted to be as powerful as God, so he went his own way. When the earth was created, it was created to be perfect. If the first created beings followed God's guidelines on how to live, they would never have to encounter evil, sin, pain...etc. I guess you could say there was spiritual warfare going on behind the scenes. Satan wanted power, and God was trying to protect humanity from it. So Satan went to Adam and Eve in the form of a snake and told them they were missing out on being more powerful than God. They believed it and strayed from what God had told them. God doesn't force anyone into submission, so he allowed for sin to enter in the world. So if it weren't for the evil that came into the world, there wouldn't be a need for commandments and even Jesus to come into this world. But there was, and people suddenly wanted it all. It opened the door for humans to find other things that they thought was greater and more important than God. They lost their trust in God, and wanted to do things their own way. So God had to put laws and commandments in order to protect them from the wickedness and evil that came into the world. It would have been a hopeless cause if we were just trying to keep up with these rules. So by God coming to earth in human form, he walked with people, had same temptations and limitations as us, but had the full knowledge of God and how to teach people face to face on how to live for God. It brought hope to the people that they weren't just following a great "god" in the sky, but that He was real and was for them. Christ died so we weren't slaves to the sin, ritual of animal sacrifice, old law, etc. Not to "forgive us of our sins that were committed against him." It's because humans were lost without Him.
First, we must believe the premise that Christianity, out of the thousands of religions, it the one true and correct story to believe.
For arguments sake, let's pretend Christianity is the only religion and just examine the story at hand...
-"To keep it simple, Christians believe that Satan is an angel who wanted to be as powerful as God, so he went his own way."
- "I guess you could say there was spiritual warfare going on behind the scenes."
- "Satan wanted power, and God was trying to protect humanity from it."
*Where did Satan come from? Doesn't this sound like classic good v evil stories we always make up?
- "When the earth was created, it was created to be perfect."
*Didn't God know that it wouldn't remain thus, as he is all-powerful and all-knowing?
-"If the first created beings followed God's guidelines on how to live, they would never have to encounter evil, sin, pain...etc."
*Once again, God must have known this would happen, right?
-"So Satan went to Adam and Eve in the form of a snake and told them they were missing out on being more powerful than God."
*A talking snake sounds a bit far-fetched
- "God doesn't force anyone into submission, so he allowed for sin to enter in the world. So if it weren't for the evil that came into the world, there wouldn't be a need for commandments and even Jesus to come into this world. But there was, and people suddenly wanted it all. It opened the door for humans to find other things that they thought was greater and more important than God. They lost their trust in God, and wanted to do things their own way."
*This is kind of a problem because God had to have KNOWN that all of this would happen. This is the catch-22 of the notion of free will and the notion of an all-knowing and all-powerful God. So this was not a surprise to God.
-"Christ died so we weren't slaves to the sin, ritual of animal sacrifice, old law, etc. Not to "forgive us of our sins that were committed against him." It's because humans were lost without Him."
*Why then are we taught that Christ came to save us from our sins so that we could go to Heaven?
What if God created the entire universe just for His glory. That means angels, (even fallen ones like Satan), humans, the whole earth. What if He did it just to be loved and to have someone to love? Sounds selfish to create an entire universe just to reign over it, but the other side of that is supposed to be the love that He offers and pours into believers. He won't force anyone to love Him. He still loves them with all His heart, but does everyone accept it? Obviously not. But if that is His motive, is it that terrible to create something to love? Also, he may have known those things would happen, but what if it is just a big redemption story. Maybe He wants to show us that He loves us enough to rescue us from all the crap in the world. Maybe earth was created perfect so we would know what we're missing out on, and that He can offer us all that again in Heaven. Maybe God wanted us as humans to fail, to realize we can't do this on our own. What if it's true, that when we die we will choose Heaven or Hell, and God's love for His creation is what makes Him desire for us to be there with Him? What if it is just as simple as that. God created us to love Him, and even more so, to love us?
....And I know, a talking snake seems a bit far fetched, but have you heard of demonic activity? Travel to other countries, and you'll see it. It's a bit hidden in more modern society, but it's out there. Plenty of people experience it.
"What if God created the entire universe just for His glory. That means angels, (even fallen ones like Satan), humans, the whole earth. What if He did it just to be loved and to have someone to love? Sounds selfish to create an entire universe just to reign over it, but the other side of that is supposed to be the love that He offers and pours into believers. He won't force anyone to love Him. He still loves them with all His heart, but does everyone accept it? Obviously not."
- There are a lot of "what if's" in all of the thousands of religious philosphies. Unfortunately a lot of "believers" or "followers" of whatever religion they pick tend to think that it is their way or the highway. Obviously you do not act this way, so this does not really apply to you. Anyway, the fact of the matter is that all religions are unprovable, some are more unbelievable than others, but in my honest opinion, there is no reason to pick one specific religion. Believing in the potentiality of a god is not absurd, but I think claiming to have a deep understanding and relationship with a god is.
"But if that is His motive, is it that terrible to create something to love? Also, he may have known those things would happen, but what if it is just a big redemption story. Maybe He wants to show us that He loves us enough to rescue us from all the crap in the world. Maybe earth was created perfect so we would know what we're missing out on, and that He can offer us all that again in Heaven."
- Once again, a lot of "maybe's" and "what if's" which aren't really a part of any religion in the way that they are demonstratively presented.
"Maybe God wanted us as humans to fail, to realize we can't do this on our own. What if it's true, that when we die we will choose Heaven or Hell, and God's love for His creation is what makes Him desire for us to be there with Him? What if it is just as simple as that. God created us to love Him, and even more so, to love us?"
- Really anythign is possible, yet at the same time, everything then cannot be possible all at once in the reality that we live in.
"....And I know, a talking snake seems a bit far fetched, but have you heard of demonic activity? Travel to other countries, and you'll see it. It's a bit hidden in more modern society, but it's out there. Plenty of people experience it."
- I have heard of "devil worship" and pagan activity along with many other superstitions. Is there something specific that I should check out?
Also, the very fact that there was a so-called "devil" or satan character from the beginning meant that god had not created a perfect world. Additionally, which I think you conceded, god had to of known that this would all happen... which basically contradicts the notion of free will, if you, as the creator already know what everyone is going to do and all that is going to happen... then wouldn't living our lives be futile?
Once again.. it's the catch 22 of: god created all of us, he gave us free will in order to judge us by our actions, yet he already knows everything so he already knew what each and every one of us would do and how we would be judged.
For an all-powerful, all-knowing deity, this seems trivial and essentially pointless.
Alright, just wanted to chime in on a couple of points. FIrst of all, props to both of you for staying respectful in this argument. Religion tends to make people incredibly angry and defensive, so thank you both for not being typical.
Now, onto my points. First of all, nowhere in the bible does it say that Satan approached Adam and Eve, that was an interpretation that has little validation. The serpent itself was actually the tempter. We pair Satan with the serpent because of this interpretation, but at the time the bible was written, this pairing didn't exist.
Second, and this just came to me, the bible says that only christians can get into heave, and says nothing of hell. Christians must praise god, follow his rules, yada yada yada. It never mentions anything about hell, again a wrongful interpretation. What if Heaven were just one option of many. What if christians go to heave, eternity with their god, and everyone else goes on to another place. There is a commandment that says "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" which has be interpreted to mean idols, but then why would there be another commandment that says "though shalt have no graven idols"? Maybe heaven is just one of many options in the afterlife. hmmmmmmmm.
hmmmmmmmm indeed kevin.
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